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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Your problem is a known issue. There's a special service message about the issue SSM75774. Software download failure for the telematics control unit. It specifically states don't attempt any repairs until a fix is issued. The SSM was issued June 22 2022. That means people are working on the problem. As far as a loaner or rental is concerned Jaguar issues the dealers a monthly stipend to cover loaner fees and yes, there is a vehicle shortage right now. We currently have 3 new vehicles for sale where as pre pandemic we were normally stocking at least 20 vehicles and we are a very small dealer. We do have the advantage of also being a Toyota dealer as well so we can put customers in a Toyota rental but that is at the dealers or customers expense, Jaguar does not compensate for that.
I'm afraid you will have to wait until the fix is issued.
Thank you. I feel like this is the most honest, reliable information I’ve received. If they're supposed to wait for a fix, would they have ordered the Restraint Control Module to try? The timing is interesting for the SSM. Issued the week after my car hit the shop. I’m wondering if my car is one of the global guinea pigs right now, so that’s why they’ve ordered a second module to try? When they check in with me every 2 or 3 days, they always say something along the lines of ‘working withe the factory’, ‘working with factory engineer’, or 'working with factory IT specialist’. At least it’s better than the first two weeks of hearing ‘waiting on parts’. One of the guys told me they had the part and that was just a canned text that I was receiving. Cool.

Regarding inventory, my dealer is quite large. They deal Jaguar/Rover/BMW/Mini. No, it's not as full as it used to be, but they do have a lot of cars. (haha)
 
Thank you. I feel like this is the most honest, reliable information I’ve received. If they're supposed to wait for a fix, would they have ordered the Restraint Control Module to try? The timing is interesting for the SSM. Issued the week after my car hit the shop. I’m wondering if my car is one of the global guinea pigs right now, so that’s why they’ve ordered a second module to try? When they check in with me every 2 or 3 days, they always say something along the lines of ‘working withe the factory’, ‘working with factory engineer’, or 'working with factory IT specialist’. At least it’s better than the first two weeks of hearing ‘waiting on parts’. One of the guys told me they had the part and that was just a canned text that I was receiving. Cool.

Regarding inventory, my dealer is quite large. They deal Jaguar/Rover/BMW/Mini. No, it's not as full as it used to be, but they do have a lot of cars. (haha)
I’ll try to keep this short. Car was dead on June 11. Not the battery or the fuses. (The start button would flash red and the hazard light button glowed red. There was a slight click under the hood. Nothing else worked. No dash lights and no power to anything.) Towed to dealership on June 14. They assessed that it was the Telematics Module and they acquired a new one. The bad news is that the software needed to be custom-written for my car. They sent a tech to training and have been in constant contact with global service support, but they have been unable to get the uploads to ‘take’ and honestly dont know what to do next. Today is July 13. They’ve had my car for 29 days.

I pulled a bunch of Jag bigwig emails (US and worldwide) and sent out a plea for someone to help our dealership get my car repaired. I was sent to a Global Customer Service liaison last Wed. Last Thurs, she emailed to ask my VIN number. Last Friday, she emailed to confirm my email. I emailed her again yesterday, but have received no follow-up communication that is helpful.

Can anyone give any advice on what we can do? Who we can contact? What would YOU do if your F-Pace with 20,000 miles was sitting in your dealership’s service bay and they didn’t know what to do with it?
This info comes to you from someone who was successful in arbitration and was paid my purchase price minus a mileage deduction for my vehicle that was in and out of the shop and could never be repaired to function safely. The car could start itself and would disable all safety features including your anti-lock brakes while driving. I am also from Nebraska. So in the State of Nebraska, they will try to tell you that you can only let them fix your car on their timeline because you are passed the 1 year Nebraska lemon law. However, what they don't tell you is that if your car is still under warranty you are covered by the Magnusson Moss act. If you car is in the shop for a period exceeding, I believe around 54 days (double check on that it has been a few years since my case) you can contact the BBB auto line. At no cost to you, they will first attempt mediation. You will most likely be given an offer. Mine at first was $2,000 and a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty, but what good would that do if no matter how long they had my car it wasn't fixed. I declined and proceeded to move to arbitration. I made three books. One for the judge, one for myself, and one for the auto co. (That was not Jag, but I ended up buying my Jag with my proceeds). The book contained a calendar of all the days marked in yellow that my car was in the shop, for me that was over 100 days in a six month period. I then had copies of every piece of paperwork from each time it was in the dealership for repair, as well as my purchase documents and copies of all my emails and texts to the dealership and the auto corporation. I also had witness affidavits from co-workers who were present when the car started itself. I was granted a hearing within about a month of filing. I represented myself as I thought I could best express what had happened. My car, like yours had 20,000 miles on it and was a year and a half old. The hearing took place at the better business bureau in Lincoln. I was given basically 45 minutes to present my case, then the auto rep presented theirs. Normally the judge would make a decision then, but when the auto rep tried to claim that my claim was worthless due to being past the 1 year lemon law deadline and I said I was claiming under magnusson moss, the auto rep asked for an extension to go back to consult with the legal team. The judge gave them 2 extra weeks, but they had no justifiable counter so the judgement was made in my favor and they were ordered to pay me the full price of my car (I had paid cash) minus a .25 per mile deduction. The BBB will assign you a rep once you file who will help you with the process. You simply file everything online and they will call. From the first day in the repair shop to the day I got my check was about 6 months. If they do not get your car repaired in the next 30 days, I would reach out to the BBB and get things started. It sounds like they are at least trying. Woodhouse basically told me they were done and I couldn't bring my car in anymore unless corporate approved it so it sat undriveable in my driveway because it was not safe to bring into the garage. Let's just say that ended me spending the hundreds of thousands I have spent in cash on vehicles in the past with them and I will never spend another dime. My dimes now go to Jag and they have been great so far, so I hope it all works out for you.

Oh and by the way, per the rental car, that was up to each dealership. Not every dealership has them available especially for long periods and during the shortage of the pandemic. Woodhouse did provide one, but when the car was sent to another dealership to try they did not. That was an individual service and not one provided by the corporation nor did they have an obligation to provide it.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
This info comes to you from someone who was successful in arbitration and was paid my purchase price minus a mileage deduction for my vehicle that was in and out of the shop and could never be repaired to function safely. The car could start itself and would disable all safety features including your anti-lock brakes while driving. I am also from Nebraska. So in the State of Nebraska, they will try to tell you that you can only let them fix your car on their timeline because you are passed the 1 year Nebraska lemon law. However, what they don't tell you is that if your car is still under warranty you are covered by the Magnusson Moss act. If you car is in the shop for a period exceeding, I believe around 54 days (double check on that it has been a few years since my case) you can contact the BBB auto line. At no cost to you, they will first attempt mediation. You will most likely be given an offer. Mine at first was $2,000 and a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty, but what good would that do if no matter how long they had my car it wasn't fixed. I declined and proceeded to move to arbitration. I made three books. One for the judge, one for myself, and one for the auto co. (That was not Jag, but I ended up buying my Jag with my proceeds). The book contained a calendar of all the days marked in yellow that my car was in the shop, for me that was over 100 days in a six month period. I then had copies of every piece of paperwork from each time it was in the dealership for repair, as well as my purchase documents and copies of all my emails and texts to the dealership and the auto corporation. I also had witness affidavits from co-workers who were present when the car started itself. I was granted a hearing within about a month of filing. I represented myself as I thought I could best express what had happened. My car, like yours had 20,000 miles on it and was a year and a half old. The hearing took place at the better business bureau in Lincoln. I was given basically 45 minutes to present my case, then the auto rep presented theirs. Normally the judge would make a decision then, but when the auto rep tried to claim that my claim was worthless due to being past the 1 year lemon law deadline and I said I was claiming under magnusson moss, the auto rep asked for an extension to go back to consult with the legal team. The judge gave them 2 extra weeks, but they had no justifiable counter so the judgement was made in my favor and they were ordered to pay me the full price of my car (I had paid cash) minus a .25 per mile deduction. The BBB will assign you a rep once you file who will help you with the process. You simply file everything online and they will call. From the first day in the repair shop to the day I got my check was about 6 months. If they do not get your car repaired in the next 30 days, I would reach out to the BBB and get things started. It sounds like they are at least trying. Woodhouse basically told me they were done and I couldn't bring my car in anymore unless corporate approved it so it sat undriveable in my driveway because it was not safe to bring into the garage. Let's just say that ended me spending the hundreds of thousands I have spent in cash on vehicles in the past with them and I will never spend another dime. My dimes now go to Jag and they have been great so far, so I hope it all works out for you.

Oh and by the way, per the rental car, that was up to each dealership. Not every dealership has them available especially for long periods and during the shortage of the pandemic. Woodhouse did provide one, but when the car was sent to another dealership to try they did not. That was an individual service and not one provided by the corporation nor did they have an obligation to provide it.
I’d say it’s a small world, but it’s not! What a coincidence to find someone on this forum, from Nebraska, who has gone through a very successful arbitration. Thank you so much for your detailed experience! Today is Day 39, but I will definitely be looking into the current process and timing requirements. (August 9 will be 54 days.) And thank you for the information about the Magnusson Moss Act. Our attorney had basically said, “You dont fall under the Lemon Law. Sorry.” And that was the extent of his advice. I wonder how much we’ll get billed for that useless nugget. Anyway, I’m glad I have all the unhelpful corporate emails, cell phone logs of calls to the dealer, and the 32 texts from the service department. I got my typical Friday text from them “It looks like this will go into Monday”. 😑

Praying that the new module they’re trying on Monday will be a success and that we wont have to take this to the next level. Even if they get it repaired, my faith is shaken in this particular car. My warranty expires in Dec and I cant imagine what the cost for this repair would have been if it were out of warranty.

We rented a car yesterday. Rental cars are very hard to find right now in Omaha due to everyone having vehicles in the shop for hail damage repair. Five days of rental is costing us close to $600. My husband did the search for me and said, “Enterprise doesn’t have any cars available. Avis has a few.” He secured a Toyota Forerunner and I said, “Wait. What color is it?” Haha. I was just kidding. I wouldn’t care if it were purple! It’s an amazing feeling to want to go somewhere and to have a damn car in the garage and just go do it!
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Day 43
I spoke to the service manager yesterday and asked if the new module arrived on Monday. He seemed to step around my question. “We received that a long time ago. Your car is in pieces and it’s a matter of working with England and trying each suggestion to target the problem.” Ok, that’s not verbatim, but he basically said my car is torn apart and they’re trying what theyre told to try. But he seemed to not have any knowledge of a second module. Or, maybe they did try it, and it didn’t work. The only tiny bright light for me from that convo was that my car is not sitting outside (hail potential). The guy who I usually talk to is on vacation for the next two weeks. I swear he was on vacation a month ago, too. And so was the service manager. I actually feel bad for these guys when they have an extreme problem like mine. I'm very easy-going and understanding. This forum has been such a blessing for real world experience with arbitration (Rachelinne) and for getting a loaner (cbrehman). Edit - and thank you to jagmaster for explaining this particular Special Service Message SSM75774

And hat tip to cbrehman for saying that they can absolutely offer a rental voucher. I reached out to the Customer Service liaison to request loaner/rental help for a fourth time. Ding ding ding! She said they can offer a goodwill gesture for a rental reimbursement of $45 a day or they can provide an Owner Loyalty Certificate once the vehicle is repaired. I have no idea what that is, so I dont know how to compare the two offers. Does anyone know what an Owner Loyalty Certificate is? Not sure I’ll get a straight or complete answer from the liaison. Her emails are extremely terse and unfriendly. So much for “customer service” liaison. You think she’d have a skosh of personality. Interesting that this goodwill gesture is not standard issue. I guess you have to beg for it. Or maybe they have a certain number of days to let you stew before they’ll consider it. Six Weeks must have been the magic number. :geek:
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Day 49
My husband called the Service Manager today. The S.M. reiterated that 7 weeks is not really THAT long. Same story the guy told me three weeks ago. FFS, he really needs a new script and needs to STOP saying that to customers! My husband didn’t let him get away with that dumb statement.
“What is the status of THIS repair”
“We haven’t heard from you in over a week”
“Paid sticker for this car. What happened to VIP service we were promised”
“We know about SSM75774 issued on June 22. If there are others out there, have ANY had a successful repair?”
“Our patience has run out” etc…

He was told that the right side of the car is now communicating, but the left side is not. My husband suggested they follow the wiring and replace all the harnesses. Ha! I’m sure that 'following and replacing wiring harnesses’ is not as easy as it sounds. But, it does seem like a legit suggestion. Oh, and, just for fun, the guy who works on my car is on vacation. But the S.M. can 'jump into that technician's email and see if there are any updates for the SSM'. THAT little nugget pissed me off. One guy is on vacation, so my car just sits there untouched. What’s another two weeks for that F-pace to sit… And if my husband hadn’t called, it sounds like checking on the SSM updates was nowhere on his radar.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Day 57
The Service Manager visited a dealer in St Louis this week. The best I can assess from a cryptic text was that they were ‘exchanging information’. Looking at another SSM75774 vehicle and swapping repair successes/failures?

Today I received a VM that they needed to reprogram my extra key fob and activity key. I asked if this was good news? Or just another piece of the puzzle that needed to be addressed?

“Master tech states it's good news.” I’ll be dropping those keys off tomorrow. It sounds like there’s hope on the horizon?
 
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Discussion starter · #27 ·
Day 59
Hope was fleeting. 😔 I dropped the keys off yesterday and all they said was “thank you” and that it “could take a few days to program them”. That same afternoon, I received my typical “Friday text” a day early.

“Tech is still working on it. Will go into Monday.”

I dont know anything about programming fobs, but I gotta think that it doesnt take up to a week? I'm literally out of emotions when it comes to this car. My husband, on the other hand, is ready to take this to the next level. They have until next Friday, August 19, before we move forward with legal options.

I adjusted my rental car contract to add another week. 😶
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
My husband spoke to the service manager today. If they decide to order a new wiring harness, it could take 8-12 months. 😳

And to think, Wednesday I had hope that I might have my car back by today. Instead, the situation has just turned infinitely worse.

Legal proceedings will start Monday.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Day 65
I appreciate this forum and all of you who have followed along and given suggestions and support. I’m going to document the steps that we’re taking (thank you again to Rachelinne for the thorough explanation on how to proceed) and I hope it helps someone else who might find themselves in a similar situation.

All right, let’s get this thing started:

Friday, August 12, 2022 - I filed a complaint on the BBB Auto Line website.
Monday, August 15, 2022 - I received an email with a case number and case specialist was assigned. I was given a link to create an account. Lots of forms to fill out. And they need copies of our Bill of Sale, Sales Tax form, current registration, work order, and any other ‘relevant documents’ - specifically, notices sent to manufacturer and confirmations of receipt. I called BBB to ask about the work order request and the ‘relevant documents' request.
Work Order - Since this is an active repair, we don't have anything in hand. BBB said to ask them for a work order, even if it’s still open. It should contain details (from the dealer) that states what’s wrong, what’s been done, and service dates.
Relevant Documents - I asked if they wanted all the email communications with the liaison. Yes. Anything and everything that we have.
Thursday, August 18, 2022 - I made pdf’s of everything and uploaded them to my account. The only missing piece is the open work order.

My husband stopped there today to get the registration out of the glove compartment. He called me and said, “Honey, you would cry if you saw your car. The dash is out. The glove compartment is out. The console is out. Trim pieces are off. It’s a mess.” 😩 He did say there was a guy sitting in it and working on it.

Another suggestion was dropped our way today. Someone ‘in the know’ told us to ask Jaguar to make our car payments. He said they’ve done it before. So, I sent an email to the customer service liaison. Of course I’m fully expecting a hard NO on that ask. She said no for six weeks on the rental car reimbursement request…and then she magically said yes at exactly six weeks - $45/day….but her wording is very specific. It states ‘once repairs are complete’. I feel like we’re going to get screwed somehow on that 'goodwill gesture'.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Day 70

Last Friday, I asked the dealer for a work order and they emailed a pdf. It has very little documentation on it, as, it’s still open...but the work order does show they have had the vehicle since June 14.

Friday, August 19, 2022
Once I received the work order, I uploaded these additional items to my BBB Auto Line account on their portal -
• Work order
• Communication with manufacturer. (16) I screenshot each email to the manufacturer and the response received from them.
• Texts to/from dealer. (50) I screenshot and put them into one multi-page pdf.

Tuesday, August 23, 2022
I received an email from BBB Auto Line. "We have opened your case and made a preliminary determination that your case is eligible.” There will be a 14 day mediation phase where my BBB case manager mediates between Jaguar/Land Rover and us. JLR has 14 calendar days to make a settlement offer. I think there can be multiple back and forth between us and JLR during the 14 days (all done through our BBB case manager). "If a settlement does not work out during the mediation stage, you will have the option of request arbitration at our local office in your area."
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
Day 76

Thank you gearFX

Monday, August 29, 2022
We met with a mediation/arbitration attorney this morning. I had printed a novel of paperwork for him - ninety three pages(!). He was useless. Once he heard that we were outside our state’s Lemon Law timeframe, he asked, “So what exactly are you looking to do?” Sighhhhhh. Dude, if you dont know the tricks, then you’re not the attorney for me. Makes me think of the ol’ adage, “When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.”…I need an attorney who can think ‘zebras’.

So far, no settlement offers from JLR. Today is day 6 of the 14 day mediation timeframe. And still receiving my almost daily texts from the dealer - “still working on it will check and text tomorrow. thanks” and last Friday, received my typical Friday text “still working on it will go into Monday will text more then. thanks”.

My rental vehicle this month is a new Jeep Wagoneer. Man, those things are YUGE! My F-Pace fit neatly in the garage with oodles of room to walk around it, but this Wagoneer is tight. At least I can knock Wagoneer off my possible new vehicle list. It’s just too big. I’d love to find an Audi Q8 to ’test drive’ for a month... 😁
 
I hope this gets resolved for you! At this point, it seems that the dealer or JLR would really want to work with you to either buy back the car, or at least do some goodwill (beyond a rental) to keep you as a customer. I know if I had the issue that you're having with your F-Pace, I wound't trust the car and would want to get out of it as soon as possible. At what point does the dealer or JLR say that they just can't fix the problem and work to get you in a new car? (at a substantial discount)

Fingers crossed that this will get resolved!!!
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Day 77 -

Profound discovery today. Mice had chewed wires. We live on an acreage and mice are a constant battle. No, the warranty does not cover critter damage. The dealer suggested that we file a claim on our auto insurance or our homeowners.

Just a damn shame it took 11 weeks for this to be found. I have no idea how much the ‘repairs' will cost. Somebody has to pay for 11 weeks of tying up one of their service bays and the time spent by their technicians. Any guesses? I’m going to estimate $11,000. I’ll update when we get the bill. Just heard from the insurance company - IT’S COVERED

Now it’s time to let BBB know that our case can be closed. And my life of sourcing rental cars and constant angst over the whole situation can be put to rest. Hmmm, I may just wait on that until after it’s up and running. Our mouse problem was two years ago, so it might have been running with those few chewed wires. What if… WHAT IF they get it back together and the SSM is still the problem?!!

For anyone who had been following along regarding the whole BBB mediation/arbitration process… Still no mediation settlement offer from JLR after 7 days. This morning we had decided to forego an attorney and handle the arbitration ourselves. Nobody knows the problems, the string of communications, or the hardships better than we did. Might as well not pay someone to try and say what we can say. No ‘legal-ese’ required at this type of hearing. BBB had sent links to videos of a mock arbitration and it seems like a fairly easy hearing to prepare for. Though, BE prepared! Watch the videos! Practice what you’re going to say. Document EVERYTHING while your car is in the shop. Bring copies of EVERYTHING for the arbitrator, the JLR rep, and for yourself.

I cant decide whether I need to buy the whole shop a bunch of pizzas or be upset that it took them 11 weeks to find the problem. Eh, pizza. Always pizza. I’m just relieved that this nightmare is almost behind me.
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Were there any signs of droppings or damage anywhere other than that wiring harness? It's far too convenient that they discovered this right after you took them to the BBB, and that what they discovered was one of the very few things that would absolve them of any responsibility. Call me cynical, but their word and that one blurry picture wouldn't do it for me at this point.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Were there any signs of droppings or damage anywhere other than that wiring harness? It's far too convenient that they discovered this right after you took them to the BBB, and that what they discovered was one of the very few things that would absolve them of any responsibility. Call me cynical, but their word and that one blurry picture wouldn't do it for me at this point.
Oh goodness. My brain hadn’t even gone there. And a friend said, “They’ve had it for almost three months. How do you know it didn’t happen there?” I hadn’t gone there, either. 😑

From these additional pics, it looks like that wiring bundle runs under the plastic trim inside one of the doors. I do see some sunflower seed shells, so there is some evidence of mouse activity. Mice are sneaky little bastards. I am curious how a small wiring bundle off to the side with two chewed wires and two damaged casings can cause a complete coma? Hell, it wasn’t even a coma. Dead. It was dead.
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Discussion starter · #39 ·
Do you live someplace or is the dealer somewhere, where sunflower seeds are around. I had chipmunks and lured them into Havarhart traps with sunflower seeds. Food for thought.
I know it didn’t happen at the dealership. It happened here. I feed the birds, squirrels, and deer and the food is stored in the spare garage bay. I haven’t noticed any holes in the bags. Though, they could easily be hauling seed in from the ground around one of the feeders. I’m getting some galvanized trash cans to put the food in. I guess that will only leave them with wires to eat 😬

The insurance adjuster approved the claim today. The dealer is going to ‘repair’ the wires (not replace) and ’see how it goes’. No word yet on when it might be completed. They have to do the unprecedented repair and then a complicated reassembly. I still haven’t cancelled my BBB complaint. What if that SSM really IS the problem, but they just happened to find some old mouse damage? I need to see how this plays out. A call or text to come pick up my car will be the green light to cancel my original complaint.

More good news is that our insurance policy covers rental cars. Well, $30/day and a max of $900. That doesnt come close to what we've spent, but it's better than nothing.
 
What some people do is put a cardboard barricade around the vehicle when it is not being used still best advise is to get rid of the mice, Get Havahart traps and rid of them in a humane way unless you chose another route. Your choice. Camphor also works. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
 
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