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Discussion Starter #1
Doh! Forgot to include this on the tire pressure thread. Did you know that the manual says "do not rotate tires"?.

Of course it's going to be awhile for us new FPace owners to have to do that, but thought that if for any reason someone doesn't RTFM, then there it is in B&W.

Tires are asymmetrical and there is an inside and outside. :nerd:
 

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Doh! Forgot to include this on the tire pressure thread. Did you know that the manual says "do not rotate tires"?.

Of course it's going to be awhile for us new FPace owners to have to do that, but thought that if for any reason someone doesn't RTFM, then there it is in B&W.

Tires are asymmetrical and there is an inside and outside. :nerd:
Rotating will not change the inside/outside aspect of the tire. Do you mean the tires are to be run in one direction making them left side and right side only mounted?
 

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This is the sort of thing that can scare me, is we have no idea what tire life will be. Used to have an Infiniti G35--some sort of design issue with the car's suspension, some people were getting 5-8k miles per set of tires, I think I averaged about double that but it was still silly.

Meanwhile I just replaced the first set of tires on my Jetta at around 60k miles.
 

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If the tires are directional, I don't really see any issue in throwing the rears up front and vice versa (side specific of course). But as far as treadwear goes, perhaps we can look up the tires and see the specs and see reviews on them ?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm just stating what the manual says, and that's don't rotate tires. However, I agree what that probably means is that while you can put the fronts on the backs, you can't "rotate" them - meaning that you can go in a circle with them and put the left on the right side of the car. The tire does say "asymmetrical", so I assume that there's a left and right tire. :nerd:

I've heard stories of tire companies (local) screwing up and putting specified forward rotation tires on the wrong side. Looks like the plus side of that is killer handling in reverse :confused:
 

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BMW does not recommend that tires are rotated on their vehicles as well. The reason, as far as I understood, had to do with the difference in camber angle from the front to the back. The idea is that the tires eventually wear in a pattern that fits the camber angle, and if you move them to the front, they no longer mate with the ground in the same way.

I was highly skeptical of this as well, but ended up getting longer life on my first set of tires than I ever had in the past. The tires also wore very evenly. With that said, I am on my second set of tires, which were put on by a local tire chain. They also performed an alignment when mounting, and I have found the tires are not wearing as well as before.
 

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manual states "Do not rotate the tires around the vehicle." so yes, that does seem to me that the tires are directional. i think only the oem 22"s have the tires that are asymmetrical and the 20"s are not.

rotating from back to front and front to back is ok.
 

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I can't seem to find where on the tire that it states that they are directional. I have the 20inch goodyears. Only thing I see is that it says " side facing outward " .
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My 20" Goodyears say asymmetrical, and side facing outward. This means they are directional tires. If you look at the tread, you'll notice the inside thinner treads are way more towards the inside of the car. If you put the tire on the other side that would reverse it's intended application (thinner section towards the outside). As long as they're the same tire, you can absolutely put the rears on the front and the fronts on the back if they're the same tire of course, but you cannot put them on the other side. :nerd:
 

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My 20" Goodyears say asymmetrical, and side facing outward. This means they are directional tires. If you look at the tread, you'll notice the inside thinner treads are way more towards the inside of the car. If you put the tire on the other side that would reverse it's intended application (thinner section towards the outside). As long as they're the same tire, you can absolutely put the rears on the front and the fronts on the back if they're the same tire of course, but you cannot put them on the other side.
Defsoundguy please look at the pictures I posted stating the difference between directional and asymmetrical. It states something different. Every site I read about this says the same as the pictures and different from what you are saying.
 

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I was not sure what Asymmetrical meant so I did a little surfing on the Web. It means that the tread pattern is not of uniform width, usually with the outside of the tire being wider than the inside. In theory provides more stability on turns and curves. In reality a more aggressive looking tire for a sports type vehicle. What that means is that the tire has an outside side and an inside side. You will see on the tire wall it states mount on outside, that is a hint.


An Asymmetrical tire can be rotated back to front and side to side or in an X Pattern, unless the vehicle manufacturer does not recommend it for other reasons such as BMW, as stated above my MJ83.


Directional tires are not necessarily Asymmetrical tires but they can be. Directional tires can only be mounted with the arrow facing forward. If they are not also Asymmetrical, they can be mounted on rims, either side of the tire, being the outside or inside. Ensuring that a two have arrows going forward on the one side of the vehicle and the same for the other side. Once mounted, the outside of the tire has to have the arrow going forward and therefore practically, once on rims, they cannot be rotated side to side, only up and down on one side of the vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So I asked tire rack about the tires and here is their response
Fair enough. Okay, let me rephrase that. If there is a certain section of the tire that's obviously on the inside more than it is the outside, and out is out and in is in, and let's say that tire is RIGHT. Now take that tire, spin it 180* so that now the same out is still out, and the in is still in. Now it's on the LEFT. The interior part is still on the inside as it's supposed to be. Looking at the asymmetry of that, once you located the tire to the other side and spun it 180, then it's all good again because now out is still out, in is still in, and the inner design is still closer to the inside right? That would be the statement of the tire guys.

Okay, now take a piece of paper, and make it into a tire, that is, a rolled up end to end circle. Now label this one right. Now draw on the outside of your paper tire a tread pattern that the groove faces up and out to the front of the car. You now have this OBVIOUS groove facing forward right? That groove you just drew now faces forward, and the leading edge of that groove is biting into the elements as the tire rolls forward. Right?

Now, turn your paper tire 180*. Now look at the groove you just drew. That same groove that was facing forward is now facing backwards NOT biting into the elements. So, if that's the case how can it be of correct left side orientation?

I'm no tire expert more than anyone else here. I'm just looking at it from a common sense perspective. The only reason I thought about it is because Jag says "don't rotate the tires" . So I wondered why.

Maybe I'm wrong. It's my 2 cents. :confused: Tell me what you think after doing the paper tire experiment. ;)
 

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So I asked tire rack about the tires and here is their response
Fair enough. Okay, let me rephrase that. If there is a certain section of the tire that's obviously on the inside more than it is the outside, and out is out and in is in, and let's say that tire is RIGHT. Now take that tire, spin it 180* so that now the same out is still out, and the in is still in. Now it's on the LEFT. The interior part is still on the inside as it's supposed to be. Looking at the asymmetry of that, once you located the tire to the other side and spun it 180, then it's all good again because now out is still out, in is still in, and the inner design is still closer to the inside right? That would be the statement of the tire guys.

Okay, now take a piece of paper, and make it into a tire, that is, a rolled up end to end circle. Now label this one right. Now draw on the outside of your paper tire a tread pattern that the groove faces up and out to the front of the car. You now have this OBVIOUS groove facing forward right? That groove you just drew now faces forward, and the leading edge of that groove is biting into the elements as the tire rolls forward. Right?

Now, turn your paper tire 180*. Now look at the groove you just drew. That same groove that was facing forward is now facing backwards NOT biting into the elements. So, if that's the case how can it be of correct left side orientation?

I'm no tire expert more than anyone else here. I'm just looking at it from a common sense perspective. The only reason I thought about it is because Jag says "don't rotate the tires" . So I wondered why.

Maybe I'm wrong. It's my 2 cents.
Tell me what you think after doing the paper tire experiment.
I totally understand what you are saying and it makes sense ( paper trick ) . But have you looked at our tires , those patterns / grooves that you are talking about seem to be facing forward on the drivers side ( toward the front of the car ) and on the passenger sides those patterns / grooves seem to be facing / going the opposite way ( toward the back of the car ) and if you were to flip them ( keeping the same side facing out ) the pattern / grooves would match that side of the car ( drivers side facing forward, passenger side facing backwards ) . Which to me sounds and looks like an asymmetrical ( can rotate anywhere ) tire . Sorry if I am not getting this. Just trying to figure out why they don't want you to rotate . Sorry if my description is hard to understand . I will try to take pics if this will help.
 

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If there is an arrow on the tire which indicates tire rotation you have two options, a: rotate front to back only or b: remove tires from rims and remount as needed. By definition symmetrical, "having parts that fail to correspond to one another in shape, size, or arrangement; lacking symmetry" would only allow option a.

Another issue may very well be the TPMS. If tires are rotated in any way shape or form the vehicle may not recognize them in a different position.
 

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If there is an arrow on the tire which indicates tire rotation you have two options, a: rotate front to back only or b: remove tires from rims and remount as needed. By definition symmetrical, "having parts that fail to correspond to one another in shape, size, or arrangement; lacking symmetry" would only allow option a.

Another issue may very well be the TPMS. If tires are rotated in any way shape or form the vehicle may not recognize them in a different position.
As far as I know tpms have nothing to do with where the tire is mounted. I have an X3 with tpms and rotate them when I switch from all season to winter and back again and there is no issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I totally understand what you are saying and it makes sense ( paper trick ) . But have you looked at our tires , those patterns / grooves that you are talking about seem to be facing forward on the drivers side ( toward the front of the car ) and on the passenger sides those patterns / grooves seem to be facing / going the opposite way ( toward the back of the car ) and if you were to flip them ( keeping the same side facing out ) the pattern / grooves would match that side of the car ( drivers side facing forward, passenger side facing backwards ) . Which to me sounds and looks like an asymmetrical ( can rotate anywhere ) tire . Sorry if I am not getting this. Just trying to figure out why they don't want you to rotate . Sorry if my description is hard to understand . I will try to take pics if this will help.
Ha! I'm usually at the coffee shop when I'm running my mouth, and can't look at the car. But yes you're right, the tires seem to be the same, so that groove that was facing forward is now facing back on the left side of the car, but everything else being equal. So in my peanut size brain, I recently saw a directional arrow. I could swear that it was my tires. I guess it was on another car, possibly at the Jag dealer. So that's why it made so much sense after reading "do not rotate tires". But there's no directional arrow. If that's the case, I agree with you - why does the manual state that? The tires are clearly running a different tread pattern on each side of the car, which to me is weird... So my paper tire conclusion really only stands when someone has an actual directional tire, which I thought we had. Obviously you can have a normal tire, asymmetrical tire, directional tire or asymmetrical directional tire (not including studded, special purpose, etc). Confusing. So, I wonder then, does the manual say "do not rotate" for other models like the 22"? I'd be curious to know if those who have tires other than the 20"s have directional tires (with the arrow)? Then the manual would make sense! Please chime all you who have other than 20"s - got arrow?
 
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