[Blanko]

Been waiting couple of months now for indications that discounts can be had off MSRP.

Will pull trigger on F Pace w/technology pkg once I can get it under $54k. Slim pickings out there and no one yet willing. to give 5-10% off MSRP.

Any views on when we will see these levels of normal discounts? Jaguar appear to be very proud right now.

 

[mrjoed2]

Been waiting couple of months now for indications that discounts can be had off MSRP.

Will pull trigger on F Pace w/technology pkg once I can get it under $54k. Slim pickings out there and no one yet willing. to give 5-10% off MSRP.

Any views on when we will see these levels of normal discounts? Jaguar appear to be very proud right now.

I'm waiting as well. Planning to upgrade my SUV next summer. Reading that FP inventory is already starting to build up at dealers. Deals WILL get better. I'm also waiting for the '18 to fully resolve the issues with this new model. May also pay off in getting the new Inline turbo 6.

 

[ddeliber]

This is truly a strange year for luxury car sales. It is now December, the height of car selling season and the discounts across the board are tiny compared to years past. I am not saying that discounts are not out there, just that it is nothing like what I am accustomed to seeing. Audi has tons of TV adds proclaiming their "season of Audi". What are they offering? 1 months payment! OOO that'll get me in the door. Now that is a manufacturer offer, dealers also offer discounts. But still,,,, weak.

One issue I see is that Mercedes destroyed everyone this year in terms of US luxury sales. No one is catching them so the US sales crown incentive for the manufacturers is non-existent. I usually get tons of emails from various BMW dealers offering 10-15% off, nothing like that this year. Lexus is apparently pushing inventory, but I don't have any real details there. End of year always has been the best time to buy a car, but generally speaking, this year sucks when it comes to discounts.

Having said this, Jaguar tends to do their own thing. Always have; but, one can't ignore the big picture. The FP is sharing the manufacturing line with the XF and the XE. One line, that makes the FP, that's it. There are other lines, but so far Solihull is it for the FP. It is running at capacity. I see no manufacturer incentive to push sales of the FP. It is all on the dealers. Local competition, sales targets and incentives to get more allocations are what is governing the price right now, and from what I can tell that price ain't moving much, at least this year.

I am seeing some signs that inventory is building a little. Website inventory is up at some local dealers; and things like cargurus.com is not getting most of the inventory. A couple months ago this was not the case. This is significant because cargurus shows the "days on the market" for each listing. If a dealer wants to hold to their prices, they actively hide their inventory from cargurus.com, but don't for sites like cars.com. Advertising multiple units on sites that show that they have been sitting more than 30 days makes it hard to say things like "we can't get em fast enough". It appears that dealers are taking a "lets stick to our guns and see what happens" approach for the end of the year. It is possible that some will offer better deals later this month, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Plus, you will probably see deals at some dealers but not all. I'll bet many dealers won't price match especially if they already met their quotas.

Last year, Jag sold a total of 1,065 vehicles in November ; they sold 1,525 FPs last month. IMO the FP is priced too low here and they are justified in sticking to their prices. I am also betting that people will be disappointed when they see the price increase on the 2018's.

 

[mrjoed2]

This is truly a strange year for luxury car sales. It is now December, the height of car selling season and the discounts across the board are tiny compared to years past. I am not saying that discounts are not out there, just that it is nothing like what I am accustomed to seeing. Audi has tons of TV adds proclaiming their "season of Audi". What are they offering? 1 months payment! OOO that'll get me in the door. Now that is a manufacturer offer, dealers also offer discounts. But still,,,, weak.

One issue I see is that Mercedes destroyed everyone this year in terms of US luxury sales. No one is catching them so the US sales crown incentive for the manufacturers is non-existent. I usually get tons of emails from various BMW dealers offering 10-15% off, nothing like that this year. Lexus is apparently pushing inventory, but I don't have any real details there. End of year always has been the best time to buy a car, but generally speaking, this year sucks when it comes to discounts.

Having said this, Jaguar tends to do their own thing. Always have; but, one can't ignore the big picture. The FP is sharing the manufacturing line with the XF and the XE. One line, that makes the FP, that's it. There are other lines, but so far Solihull is it for the FP. It is running at capacity. I see no manufacturer incentive to push sales of the FP. It is all on the dealers. Local competition, sales targets and incentives to get more allocations are what is governing the price right now, and from what I can tell that price ain't moving much, at least this year.

I am seeing some signs that inventory is building a little. Website inventory is up at some local dealers; and things like cargurus.com is not getting most of the inventory. A couple months ago this was not the case. This is significant because cargurus shows the "days on the market" for each listing. If a dealer wants to hold to their prices, they actively hide their inventory from cargurus.com, but don't for sites like cars.com. Advertising multiple units on sites that show that they have been sitting more than 30 days makes it hard to say things like "we can't get em fast enough". It appears that dealers are taking a "lets stick to our guns and see what happens" approach for the end of the year. It is possible that some will offer better deals later this month, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Plus, you will probably see deals at some dealers but not all. I'll bet many dealers won't price match especially if they already met their quotas.

Last year, Jag sold a total of 1,065 vehicles in November ; they sold 1,525 FPs last month. IMO the FP is priced too low here and they are justified in sticking to their prices.

Good analysis. I do know one thing for sure, any new first year hot model - I don't care what brand, sees a drop off of demand in it's second model year. And the discounts/incentives commence. I expect this for the F-Pace.
Let the Jag dealers have their fruitful year of profits with the new F-Pace, they deserve it. Next year will be a different
story. Also would add the competition will heat up as well with the New BMW X3, Audi Q5, Benz AMG43 GLC, ect.
And again bonus will be these teething problems should be ironed out.

 

[EagleJag]

I negotiated my deal in mid-summer before placing the FP order. The first dealer hit me with a price of $200 over MSRP. I thought that was pretty funny, like I was on a hidden-camera show. So after looking around and seeing no cameras, I left the dealership.

I went to Audi to start working up my A7 order. But because the lease programs on the '17 A7 weren't out yet, I decided to hold off for the time being. For the heck of it, I visited another Jag dealer. The price was only a few hundred better than the other dealer. At that point, I was just honest with him. I told him I liked the car, but that I was not going to pay anything near MSRP for a new model from a brand with a terrible reputation for reliability. I knew I was going to spend more time at the service department than with any car I've even owned, so in order to proceed, the discount had to be significant. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been worth it for me. We settled on $900 over dealer invoice.

 

[mrjoed2]

I negotiated my deal in mid-summer before placing the FP order. The first dealer hit me with a price of $200 over MSRP. I thought that was pretty funny, like I was on a hidden-camera show. So after looking around and seeing no cameras, I left the dealership.

I went to Audi to start working up my A7 order. But because the lease programs on the '17 A7 weren't out yet, I decided to hold off for the time being. For the heck of it, I visited another Jag dealer. The price was only a few hundred better than the other dealer. At that point, I was just honest with him. I told him I liked the car, but that I was not going to pay anything near MSRP for a new model from a brand with a terrible reputation for reliability. I knew I was going to spend more time at the service department than with any car I've even owned, so in order to proceed, the discount had to be significant. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been worth it for me. We settled on $900 over dealer invoice.

Excellent - that is a unique tactic - have not seen that one here before! Just out of curiosity, without giving any details
can you tell us what the dollar amount discount was from MSRP? And that is how I worked my BMW deal - UP from European delivery invoice , not down from sticker.

 

[EagleJag]

Excellent - that is a unique tactic - have not seen that one here before! Just out of curiosity, without giving any details
can you tell us what the dollar amount discount was from MSRP? And that is how I worked my BMW deal - UP from European delivery invoice , not down from sticker.

Thanks, mrjoed2. I don't have any of my paperwork in front of me, but my recollection (and don't hold me to this) is that it was about $2,300 off MSRP. I also want to be clear that it wasn't as simple as walking in, saying what I said, and then getting the discount. We had a lot of back and forth negotiations for a week or so to get to $900 above invoice. But the reliability thing wasn't just a negotiation tactic for me, it was a legitimate concern. I told my dealer about the thousands of posts on this forum where people had been dealing with all sorts of unresolved problems. It was either give me the price I need, get credit for the sale, and a get a possible long-term future customer, or get absolutely nothing and hand Audi another sale.

 

[SinBRG22]

Gotta tell you. I've had my FP S in BRG w/ 22's since May and LOOOOOOOOOOVE IT! Few hundred bucks ain't worth driving your 2nd choice at THIS level. Still catch people taking cell shots when I'm stopped at a light and have YET to see another one on the road in Chicago. Getter Done!

 

[ndabunka]

Been waiting couple of months now for indications that discounts can be had off MSRP.

Will pull trigger on F Pace w/technology pkg once I can get it under $54k. Slim pickings out there and no one yet willing. to give 5-10% off MSRP.

Any views on when we will see these levels of normal discounts? Jaguar appear to be very proud right now.

5-10% off is not anywhere NEAR a "normal" discount for an "in-demad" high line vehicle so...you might be waiting until hades freezes over.. :laugh:

Seriously - Go buy a '17 BMW X5 35i if you want to get even 4% off MSRP. They are taking about $3,500 right off of MSRP + other incentives.

Now there WERE a few people that committed to buy WELL BEFORE the vehicles were even able to be seen or driven. Many dealerships bargained hard to get their FIRST F-Pace sale(s) so some did get large discounts ...about 6 months ago like Eagle but most of those negotiating options aren't avaliable to curent buyers unless you are going to try to get leverage for the KNOWN risks (front dif, IPCT programming failures, etc) but since you don't KNOW that your particular F-Pace will actually HAVE ANY of those issues, there is no reason for a dealer to "play ball" that way

Thanks, mrjoed2. I don't have any of my paperwork in front of me, but my recollection (and don't hold me to this) is that it was about $2,300 off MSRP.

 

[mrjoed2]

Thanks, mrjoed2. I don't have any of my paperwork in front of me, but my recollection (and don't hold me to this) is that it was about $2,300 off MSRP. I also want to be clear that it wasn't as simple as walking in, saying what I said, and then getting the discount. We had a lot of back and forth negotiations for a week or so to get to $900 above invoice. But the reliability thing wasn't just a negotiation tactic for me, it was a legitimate concern. I told my dealer about the thousands of posts on this forum where people had been dealing with all sorts of unresolved problems. It was either give me the price I need, get credit for the sale, and a get a possible long-term future customer, or get absolutely nothing and hand Audi another sale.

EagleJag, Oh I understand it would not have been easy. I just love the premise of your argument. I love the look of the F-Pace, the performance, how exclusive it is. But I have commented on this forum while researching my next SUV, the serious concerns I have about the reliability & quality of the vehicle. One of the reasons I am waiting until the 2018, as with all all Mfg's a first year new design usually has problems. But with Jag that concern is at another level. I have gone through all the JD Power studies, Jaguar Land Rover unfortunately has one of the worst reliability histories. Add the issues seen on this forum & I will use your argument if I go for a Fpace. Of course the logical side of me says I should go for a Lexus RX350.........

 

[mrjoed2]

5-10% off is not anywhere NEAR a "normal" discount for an "in-demad" high line vehicle so...you might be waiting until hades freezes over.. :laugh:

Seriously - Go buy a '17 BMW X5 35i if you want to get even 4% off MSRP. They are taking about $3,500 right off of MSRP + other incentives.

Now there WERE a few people that committed to buy WELL BEFORE the vehicles were even able to be seen or driven. Many dealerships bargained hard to get their FIRST F-Pace sale(s) so some did get large discounts ...about 6 months ago like Eagle but most of those negotiating options aren't avaliable to curent buyers unless you are going to try to get leverage for the KNOWN risks (front dif, IPCT programming failures, etc) but since you don't KNOW that your particular F-Pace will actually HAVE ANY of those issues, there is no reason for a dealer to "play ball" that way

5% is completely doable in the 2nd model year of any vehicle ( except Ferrari) That" in -demand "you talk about will drop off next year - guaranteed. Already reading threads here about inventory building up at dealers. I am going to visit Orlando Jaguar on Monday for a test drive. -they currently have 26 in stock. 2 months ago they had 5. Big beautiful discounts are coming. And BTW, just mentioning the nightmare front diff leak defect should get us a discount.

 

[VZX-CO]

please dear god buy the Lexus

 

[mrjoed2]

please dear god buy the Lexus

Finally test driving the FP next week. Either the Jag is in the running or not.

 

[Caymus]

please dear god buy the Lexus

+1 :crying:

 

[ddeliber]

5% is completely doable in the 2nd model year of any vehicle ( except Ferrari) That" in -demand "you talk about will drop off next year - guaranteed. Already reading threads here about inventory building up at dealers. I am going to visit Orlando Jaguar on Monday for a test drive. -they currently have 26 in stock. 2 months ago they had 5. Big beautiful discounts are coming. And BTW, just mentioning the nightmare front diff leak defect should get us a discount.

You have to remember that this is not a $50k 3 series that BMW blows out at $350/mo on a 3 yr lease nor a $100k 6 series that sits on the lot for a year and then gets discounted 20%+. There are a lot of factors at play here and the competition's pricing strategies are not Jaguar's. I am not saying that the prices won't come down significantly, but it is absolutely not "guaranteed" that they will. The price on the 18s will go up (I heard the number was $2,500 - also not guaranteed), the 17s will most likely fly out the door with no extra incentives and we'll just have to see what happens next. Predicting the future is not something that should be done with absolutes. (unless you are talking about BMW, they are pretty predictable

My concern is that they put the new 6 cyl in the 18's. ICTP issues pale in comparison with new engine teething issues. That is a risk I am not willing to take in its first year.

 

[ndabunka]

5% is completely doable in the 2nd model year of any vehicle ( except Ferrari) That" in -demand "you talk about will drop off next year - guaranteed. Already reading threads here about inventory building up at dealers. I am going to visit Orlando Jaguar on Monday for a test drive. -they currently have 26 in stock. 2 months ago they had 5. Big beautiful discounts are coming. And BTW, just mentioning the nightmare front diff leak defect should get us a discount.

There is really no need to "speculate". The modern online systems are able to provide significantly more transparency than in the old days were you just "think" you can get a 5% discount because.. well, you just CAN!

Please go to edmunds & verify the MSRP & Invoice prices of F-Paces and you will be able to confirm (for yourself) that the AVERAGE F-Pace transaction is pretty darn near MSRP. Now, that IS "on average" and there will be the odd "winner" who can get a few $$$s off those prices. Prior to production deliveries some DID get as much as $2,500 off the MSRP. However, that is simply no longer the case.

I am not saying that you CAN'T get more discounts in a year from now but you CAN verify what a "Hot car" can do in a year. When the Lexus RX's were first released, it was the same "feeding frenzy" with minimal discounts. A year later nothing had changed other than a few straggler's with limited options on the lots for a couple of grand off that $45K vehicle. Certainly not the 5% you feel you are justified in "wishing/hoping for".

 

[ndabunka]

A good "soft" target would be the 2.0L Diesel R-Sport in IRR. VIN #FP087359. The MSRP on it is $60,445 ($61,445 if before the $1K price increase in November). Invoice on it is $57,628 (According to TruCar which is more accurate than Edmunds). Just for grins and giggles you may now realize that is only 4.66% off published MSRP.

Get them to put their offer price down on paper and share that with us here on this board. I wish you luck but fear that reality will eventually set in.

Please note that there are no dealer incentives from Jaguar at this point in time and Jag hardly ever offer's percentage $s off even older cars. Rather they offer incentives like discounted money factors on low annual mileage leases. 10K miles/year in the following example. For November the Diesel R-Sport had a lease money factor of .00002 (Equivalent to about a .05% annual interest rate). The problem is that they also have miniscule residuals of 47% after a 39 month lease so the payment on that car at MSRP so your monthly lease payment would be $925. If you had them calculate a Land Rover Sport with an identical MSRP, the payment would be closer to $749/month (last month's RR promotion) simply due to the higher residual Jaguar uses on the Range Rovers.

 

[mrjoed2]

You have to remember that this is not a $50k 3 series that BMW blows out at $350/mo on a 3 yr lease nor a $100k 6 series that sits on the lot for a year and then gets discounted 20%+. There are a lot of factors at play here and the competition's pricing strategies are not Jaguar's. I am not saying that the prices won't come down significantly, but it is absolutely not "guaranteed" that they will. The price on the 18s will go up (I heard the number was $2,500 - also not guaranteed), the 17s will most likely fly out the door with no extra incentives and we'll just have to see what happens next. Predicting the future is not something that should be done with absolutes. (unless you are talking about BMW, they are pretty predictable

My concern is that they put the new 6 cyl in the 18's. ICTP issues pale in comparison with new engine teething issues. That is a risk I am not willing to take in its first year.

First off, nobody is talking about a 3 series - and of course BMW is a major player in the luxury marker, unlike Jaguar which is such a minor player is often not even show on surveys. And any car from any Mfg. that sits on the lot into the next model year is going to get a big discount. As for your 6 series comment- I special ordered a 650i M edition coupe to my specs via European Delivery & picked it up in Munich, with personal guided tours of the factory & BMW museum, and had it shipped to the performance center in SC for a day of instructed track time, included & I got 13% off, so mine was no leftover. And the 6 series is BMW's most exclusive line. And there is no question BMW is a much more reliable brand than Jaguar.

Some people here seem to think the Fpace is something exotic, it is not. It will be subject to the same market forces as every other brand including lots of new competition . As demand drops off, discounts will increase, this is not speculation. And as you mentioned about the new 6 cylinder engine likely having teething problems, the Fpace has had lots of these, so that will hurt pricing - as you see here, some guys are going in & bringing that up to dealers during negotiations.

 

[mrjoed2]

A good "soft" target would be the 2.0L Diesel R-Sport in IRR. VIN #FP087359. The MSRP on it is $60,445 ($61,445 if before the $1K price increase in November). Invoice on it is $57,628 (According to TruCar which is more accurate than Edmunds). Just for grins and giggles you may now realize that is only 4.66% off published MSRP.

Get them to put their offer price down on paper and share that with us here on this board. I wish you luck but fear that reality will eventually set in.

Please note that there are no dealer incentives from Jaguar at this point in time and Jag hardly ever offer's percentage $s off even older cars. Rather they offer incentives like discounted money factors on low annual mileage leases. 10K miles/year in the following example. For November the Diesel R-Sport had a lease money factor of .00002 (Equivalent to about a .05% annual interest rate). The problem is that they also have miniscule residuals of 47% after a 39 month lease so the payment on that car at MSRP so your monthly lease payment would be $925. If you had them calculate a Land Rover Sport with an identical MSRP, the payment would be closer to $749/month (last month's RR promotion) simply due to the higher residual Jaguar uses on the Range Rovers.

You couldn't get me to pay $60K for a 4 banger diesel if there was a Barrett .50 to my head.

 

[ddeliber]

First off, nobody is talking about a 3 series - and of course BMW is a major player in the luxury marker, unlike Jaguar which is such a minor player is often not even show on surveys. And any car from any Mfg. that sits on the lot into the next model year is going to get a big discount. As for your 6 series comment- I special ordered a 650i M edition coupe to my specs via European Delivery & picked it up in Munich, with personal guided tours of the factory & BMW museum, and had it shipped to the performance center in SC for a day of instructed track time, included & I got 13% off, so mine was no leftover. And the 6 series is BMW's most exclusive line. And there is no question BMW is a much more reliable brand than Jaguar.

Some people here seem to think the Fpace is something exotic, it is not. It will be subject to the same market forces as every other brand including lots of new competition . As demand drops off, discounts will increase, this is not speculation. And as you mentioned about the new 6 cylinder engine likely having teething problems, the Fpace has had lots of these, so that will hurt pricing - as you see here, some guys are going in & bringing that up to dealers during negotiations.

I was not talking about your 6 series but rather some of the pricing strategies that BMW uses. My apologies if that was your take on my comment. My point was that it doesn't matter what others do, Jag is doing it their way. They specifically chose to set the price on the FP low to garner the attention and some market share; and they succeeded with this.

To be honest, I am very much like you in that I always look for the best deal, whether it be for me or others that I work with. It took me some time to realize that the best deal does not always come in the form of the largest discount. Look at the complete picture and then make your decision. Anyone can intentionally set the price high and then discount it to what your real target price is. In fact, most do it this way. This allows the market to develop on its own and allows them to take advantage of their successful offerings immediately - simply by not discounting as much based on demand. Jaguar felt they needed to stimulate sales with a lower entry point, which was IMO a very good decision. I know I am one that would have never considered a Jag anything based on my opinion of their reliability... The price and the warranty/maint is what pulled me in regardless of my opinion of the vehicle.

I don't believe that the FP is an exotic, and I agree that demand will set the price. I just don't believe that it is a guarantee that in year two the demand will decrease to the point of large discounts. Jag should be able manage production to the point that it does not exceed the demand. Don't forget, they only have 1 line making FPs. It is not like they have to support 4k units each month just to keep their production employees and equipment working (like BMW, Merc etc). Sure the FP has issues and new risks coming, but this is not unprecedented in any stretch, any BMW owner knows this. IMO the real issues are pretty low, they just F'edUP ICTP. It is not like a HPFP stranding drivers or anything.

IMO Jag has positioned themselves well here, and the only way to know what happens next year is to wait for it to happen. I already bought mine so I am hoping the prices stay reasonably high . IMO there is a good chance that this will happen. Right now, the dealers are making all the extra money, not Jag. Price increases are a way to correct that.